Proposition 86 in California.

[TommyBB]

Member GregMD from Sacramento posted this in the LCdH.
I realize this isn't the OCR, and I hope this thread doesn't need to be moved there.

But Greg's post is fantastic and informative. I'm really shocked by this. I know politics is often ugly, but this is just beyond the pale, it really is.

Originally Posted by GregMD

For the love of God please see reason!
VOTE NO ON PROP 86!!!

First of all I, too, hate cigarettes and second, I am an Emergency Medicine Doctor (who stands to directly benefit if the prop. passes). Now, the prop will put such an onerous tax on tobacconists that most if not all in the state will be put out of business (over 100% tax per cigar/pipe tobacco!). Tobacconists would have to pay tax on ALL their current stock thus making them come up with hundreds of thousands of dollars from the get go. Several of my friends OWN cigar/pipe stores and would be completely out of the business that had been around, in some cases for over 40 years!

Now, if I can't appeal to you to vote no because it is an unfair tax that will destroy businesses and families, I hope I can make you see the stupidity of where the tax money goes!

LESS THAN 10% goes to fight cigarettes! The rest goes to hospitals! The hospitals want to use it to force consultants to work for a set price and to also consolidate specialty care a one hospital per area. That may sound good but it is NOT! Specialist do not have to accept what a hospital offers them to be on call. Thus, if you show up to an ER with say a broken arm, there will not be an orthopedic surgeon on call to help you because they don't have to work for the pitance the hospital is offering. Also, say that your wife wants to deliver her baby at hospital A but has a complication and your son/daughter needs a neonatal intensivist, INSTEAD of being able to stay at hospital A your baby will have to be shipped, a risky procedure, across town to the ONLY neonatal unit in town because neonatal care has been consolidated to that one hospital.

In essence, prop 86 is NOT about an unfair and egregious tobacoo tax it is, in short, a money grab by hospitals that, believe me, do NOT have your best interests in mind! Furthermore, this prop becomes a state constitutional amendment making it EXTREMELY difficult to reverse or change in the future.

PLEASE do NOT be so callous and selfish with your vote! PLEASE READ the fine print on the proposition (www.noprop86.org)!!!!

VOTE NO ON PROP 86!!!

Greg Rosellini, M.D.

[magnus5]

It was a very good post Tommy. And very important for all of our Cali CW members. The thought that any cigar smoker could vote for this, even if it doesn't apply to them directly is appalling. They pass this guess what? You're next.

And this is important to you even if you dont live in Cali, as this is an experiment to see how it goes before it is unleashed on the many of the states, especitally if it is successful.

[JCole311]

I agree this Proposition is very bad news if it goes through. I hope that this does not go through and that the people of California understand that even if they are rabidly anti-tobacco that this proposition is about much more than tobacco.

Everyone in California needs to get the word out to co-workers, friends, family members, etc. Vote No on 86!

[b0rderman]

I just read that LCDH thread and thought the doctor's post needed to be dropped in leaflet form from planes in CA.......well at least it made its way into the Smoking Post

[ConMan]

For whatever reason, I get the feeling this will pass in California

[Zippy The Pinhead]

Originally Posted by ConMan

For whatever reason, I get the feeling this will pass in California

Hard call right now.

Polls show that at least some people are starting to realize 86 is not what it claims to be.

I have a left-leaning coworker who like cigars and voted (by absentee ballot) for 86 because he said he was unaware it was also anti-cigar. I think his take is typical; anything to screw cigarette smokers is regarded as a good thing by the vast majority.

I try to never underestimate the ability of my fellow Californians to vote the wrong way on just about anything, but who knows... maybe we'll be fortunate to see 86 go down in defeat. People seem to be as negative on taxes as they are on cigarettes, and if the word gets out that 86 is less about tobacco than it is about the cashflow of California hospitals, maybe the people will do the right thing.

Angelides, our wanna-be governor, is headed for defeat in part because of his "never met a tax hike I didn't like" campaign.

[nunee]

The "Anti-86" campaign is HUGE, and well run. The list of "No on 86" supporters is HUGE. Essentially ALL newspapers, Sheriff and Police Departments, doctors, the list goes on. The campaign is really agressive....the amount of tobacco related crime is going to SKYROCKET if this thing passes. It will be outrageous.

BUT the last poll I saw showed it as a DEAD heat.

45% against
45% For
10% undecided with a 3% margin of error.


I can only hope that voters for this are informed. The Pro campaign is supported by the nurses groups, Heart & Lung Assoc. and Cancer Research. The list is small. Their only real defense is "Beat the big tobacco campaign."

Any informed voter should see through this.....I only hope they do.

[univibe88]

This is exactly the kind of grass roots activity that can help sway the vote. I'm sure there are some Californians here who were not planning to vote, but will read this and decide to get and vote so he can vote NO on this prop.

Sometimes it takes an issue that hits close to home to inspire someone to vote.

[servebig2]

Originally Posted by nunee

The campaign is really agressive....the amount of tobacco related crime is going to SKYROCKET if this thing passes. It will be outrageous.

By "tobacco related crime" do you mean stick-ups at the local 7-11, or importation into the state without paying the tax? I hope its the former, because the latter is not a crime under federal or state law. If this prop becomes law I will legally be able to avoid the tax and order all the cigars and cigarettes, for that matter, from another state (or country) over the internet.

To me, this is the ludicrousy of the proposition. When it passes (notice I didn't say if) the few cigar smokers who still buy from local B&Ms will take their remaining business online to JR and the like. Ask Lew how much his business has increased since state taxation EVERYWHERE has gone through the roof.

Of course I'm sure all us Californians are doing the right thing and paying the tobacco tax on these shipments, right?

This really capsulizes why I hate politics. The Fed's pass laws protecting taxation of interstate sales over the internet, then the individual state's voters inact these outrageous taxes on tobacco. I know this is blasphemy, but there should be some sort of co-ordination between the federal and state governments to ensure that the internet retalers have to pay the applicable state tobacco tax on all states that they sell to. IT JUST MAKES SENSE both logically and morally.

[maw]

Of course I'm sure all us Californians are doing the right thing and paying the tobacco tax on these shipments, right?


Don't you think CA will take the steps to get all money from out of state tax sales......I would think so if something like this passes. Even the big guys like JRs will be surrendering (forced) their records to the states of taxes collected...