Cigar Weekly

St. Alphonzo · 11-19-2002, 10:09 PM

I've been looking for a second acoustic guitar to my Takamine A/E cutaway. I want a dreadnought for playing in my folk choir, family get togethers, general noodling around, learning bluegrass and the occasional DEAD tune

My price range is approx. $500-$600. I have played the following with some thoughts.

Seagull S-6 Spruce and Cedar $330 w case
Middle of the road. No wow factor for me. Price can't be beat. Sound didn't get deep enough for me.

Larrivee DO3 $899
What a piece of work! I could have played this guitar for hours but the price was too high.

Taylor 310 $899
Set-up was out of wack so I didn't get a good chance to see how it should have really performed but price was prohibitive.

Tacoma DM18 (NO hardshell case and USED w less than 1 yr of age) $550
Wow factor. The craftsmanship was very nice and it played well with no real effort between flatpicking, barre chords etc. I could attack the strings with no degradation of sound. I could stroke this baby hard and everything sounded clear. Nice bass sound came through. Another guitar I could play for hours. Nice sustain.

Norman B 5 06 $595 w case
Another wow factor. Craftsmanship was spot on and the playing was effortless. The sound was much more mellow than the Tacoma but in a good way. I wish this company had a respectable web site where I could glean more information.

Martin D15 $620 w case
Wow factor. The craftmanship was nice and it played well with no real effort between flatpicking, barre chords etc. I could attack the strings with no degradation of sound. Hard strumming revealed clear sounds. I've heard this model can be trebly but I didn't hear it. It had a very good all around sound. I want to say sounds similar to the Norman?

So.....
I think I have narrowed it done to 3; the Martin D15, Tacoma DM18 and the Norman B506
The Tacoma was REALLY nice but since the case is missing (was a trade in), should I broach the subject to the shop owner of taking 100.00 off the price for a case? I know these models are in the 800-900 range. I wish I had more information on the Norman guitars and the Martin might just be the best all around performer.

Any thoughts?

mannish · 11-20-2002, 08:15 AM

Norman in the past was not great quailty but apparently I don't keep up, they were never a major player before. it appears this 'Norman"
is a different company. Is the d-15 a dolid top Martin. I have really enjoyed playing the
Tacomas, the one I played had the funky soundhole so amplifiying it would be a problem for me without an under saddle PU.
The reputation of Martin (% warranty mine is lifetime) and the Tacoma makes me think they would be the better buy. AS far as the case issue it never hurts to try. 100-75 dollars, some Tacomas have a unique shape and not just any case will do. I could be wrong cause I am mainly Gibson. Hard to go wrong with Martin or Tacoma though. Good luck

I know you know but like cigars decide for yourself just cause someone said the Martin sounded trebly or we/I don't know much about the Norman you still got to use your own ears. I have an NMI that was 50 bucks at a pawn shop, ugly and dirty, cleaned up well sounds terrific. My wife said that guitar is dirty, bad shape I said 'listen to it though'. Amazing sound when I want that sound. You just never know. Sorry I rambled and I don't know evetything so I didn't mean to sound like I think I do.

Aahzz · 11-20-2002, 08:16 AM

It's hard to go wrong with a Martin. Just picked up a Martin DM myself, and am in love with it...picked it up to use as more of a beater, since it has laminated back and sides, yet its tone approaches that of my '94 Taylor 510. I played the D15 as well, but preferred the tone of the spruce topped DM. If the D15 speaks to you, by all means, BUY IT! Considering the fact that Mahogany has been upgraded on the CITES list of endangered woods, the price on these is going to go up in the relatively near future - that combined wioth the Martin name will give excellent resale value should you wish to replace it down the road. Neither the Tacoma nor the Norman will hold their value as well - however, if they sound better, buy one of them instead. Tone rules over everything else (except maybe playability, in extreme situations...)

decasere · 11-20-2002, 11:16 AM

I dont think you an gom wrong with a MArtin, great sound, looks like a good price for the model, i am shocked at the taylor you played though, since those are my other fav, very rich sound, when i was out in Seattle, they had a lim. edition cujo guitar that was made out of the tree that cujo was tied up to in the movie, Sa-Weet.

"If you can't send money send Tobacco"

George Washington to the continental Congress 1776

mannish · 11-20-2002, 12:21 PM

I hate Taylors but they are excellent guitars. My daughter has a beautiful top-of-the-line big body Taylor but I hate it. My son in law has a Tacoma I like it far better than the daughters Taylor. I'll stick to the Gibsons, although my Martin is great I am still a Gibson man when it comes to acoustics. It has MY tone and like cigars everyones taste is different. No right or wrong. This Martin is about take over as my main acoustic, though. I am so depressed about music it really doesn't matter. Sale all of them and say F-it

decasere · 11-20-2002, 12:51 PM

dang mannish, it cant be that bad, i wish i had half the talent you've got.

Cheer up it can only get worse, so why be down now??

St Alphonso, have you considered the Washburn D 10, its the acoustic that i have and wiedly considered one of the best under $500 dollar guitars out there.

"If you can't send money send Tobacco"

George Washington to the continental Congress 1776

St. Alphonzo · 11-20-2002, 01:01 PM

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the wisdom. My bro-in-law, who has a Taylor 714ce, thinks Martin is just skating along on their name rather than making fine instruments anymore. Any thoughts?

Mannish,
The D-15 is all Mahogany, Top, Back and Sides.

One problem is that one guitar is in Wilmington (Tacoma) and the Martin is in Philly (Medley Music) so it's hard for a side by side comparison.

The search continues....

mannish · 11-20-2002, 01:25 PM

"My bro-in-law, who has a Taylor 714ce, thinks Martin is just skating along on their
name rather than making fine instruments anymore. Any thoughts?"

Yeah he's very wrong. Martin, Gibson, Fender, Taylor, Guild....etc are way too steeped in tradition and pride to 'skate along'. The competition is more fierce than ever and Martin still makes one of the finest guitars available, will always make one of the finest. Period. Some makers (not just guitars) have a lot of pride in their products and Martin is one of them. They don't 'skate along' they built the ice rink for the other 'skaters'.

St. Alphonzo · 11-20-2002, 02:20 PM

Well put!

Mo · 11-21-2002, 05:44 PM

I would recommend looking at the Ibanez AW series. I played this guitar for about an hour or so last weekend while guitar shopping and was pretty impressed.
http://www.ibanez.com/guitars/guitar.asp?model=AW300NT

Great bass, nice highs, and loud enough to play fingerstyle.

I agree with some of the other posts as well... looks and sound are important factors, but a guitar should also inspire you a little.

11-19-2002, 10:09 PM	#1
St. Alphonzo Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Wilmington, DE Posts: 471	I've been looking for a second acoustic guitar to my Takamine A/E cutaway. I want a dreadnought for playing in my folk choir, family get togethers, general noodling around, learning bluegrass and the occasional DEAD tune My price range is approx. $500-$600. I have played the following with some thoughts. Seagull S-6 Spruce and Cedar $330 w case Middle of the road. No wow factor for me. Price can't be beat. Sound didn't get deep enough for me. Larrivee DO3 $899 What a piece of work! I could have played this guitar for hours but the price was too high. Taylor 310 $899 Set-up was out of wack so I didn't get a good chance to see how it should have really performed but price was prohibitive. Tacoma DM18 (NO hardshell case and USED w less than 1 yr of age) $550 Wow factor. The craftsmanship was very nice and it played well with no real effort between flatpicking, barre chords etc. I could attack the strings with no degradation of sound. I could stroke this baby hard and everything sounded clear. Nice bass sound came through. Another guitar I could play for hours. Nice sustain. Norman B 5 06 $595 w case Another wow factor. Craftsmanship was spot on and the playing was effortless. The sound was much more mellow than the Tacoma but in a good way. I wish this company had a respectable web site where I could glean more information. Martin D15 $620 w case Wow factor. The craftmanship was nice and it played well with no real effort between flatpicking, barre chords etc. I could attack the strings with no degradation of sound. Hard strumming revealed clear sounds. I've heard this model can be trebly but I didn't hear it. It had a very good all around sound. I want to say sounds similar to the Norman? So..... I think I have narrowed it done to 3; the Martin D15, Tacoma DM18 and the Norman B506 The Tacoma was REALLY nice but since the case is missing (was a trade in), should I broach the subject to the shop owner of taking 100.00 off the price for a case? I know these models are in the 800-900 range. I wish I had more information on the Norman guitars and the Martin might just be the best all around performer. Any thoughts? __________________ Two degrees in be-bop, a PhD in swing, he's the master of rhythm, he's a rock and roll king...

11-20-2002, 08:15 AM	#2
mannish Herf God Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Springville, AL USA Posts: 15,792	Norman in the past was not great quailty but apparently I don't keep up, they were never a major player before. it appears this 'Norman" is a different company. Is the d-15 a dolid top Martin. I have really enjoyed playing the Tacomas, the one I played had the funky soundhole so amplifiying it would be a problem for me without an under saddle PU. The reputation of Martin (% warranty mine is lifetime) and the Tacoma makes me think they would be the better buy. AS far as the case issue it never hurts to try. 100-75 dollars, some Tacomas have a unique shape and not just any case will do. I could be wrong cause I am mainly Gibson. Hard to go wrong with Martin or Tacoma though. Good luck I know you know but like cigars decide for yourself just cause someone said the Martin sounded trebly or we/I don't know much about the Norman you still got to use your own ears. I have an NMI that was 50 bucks at a pawn shop, ugly and dirty, cleaned up well sounds terrific. My wife said that guitar is dirty, bad shape I said 'listen to it though'. Amazing sound when I want that sound. You just never know. Sorry I rambled and I don't know evetything so I didn't mean to sound like I think I do. __________________ “We do not see things as they are, we see them as we are.”

11-20-2002, 08:16 AM	#3
Aahzz Club Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Union, KY USA Posts: 2,690	It's hard to go wrong with a Martin. Just picked up a Martin DM myself, and am in love with it...picked it up to use as more of a beater, since it has laminated back and sides, yet its tone approaches that of my '94 Taylor 510. I played the D15 as well, but preferred the tone of the spruce topped DM. If the D15 speaks to you, by all means, BUY IT! Considering the fact that Mahogany has been upgraded on the CITES list of endangered woods, the price on these is going to go up in the relatively near future - that combined wioth the Martin name will give excellent resale value should you wish to replace it down the road. Neither the Tacoma nor the Norman will hold their value as well - however, if they sound better, buy one of them instead. Tone rules over everything else (except maybe playability, in extreme situations...) __________________ I want music, sex, and cookies JLOH #42

11-20-2002, 11:16 AM	#4
decasere Club Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Souderton, PA USA Posts: 2,934	I dont think you an gom wrong with a MArtin, great sound, looks like a good price for the model, i am shocked at the taylor you played though, since those are my other fav, very rich sound, when i was out in Seattle, they had a lim. edition cujo guitar that was made out of the tree that cujo was tied up to in the movie, Sa-Weet. "If you can't send money send Tobacco" George Washington to the continental Congress 1776 __________________ LETS GO FLYERS!!

11-20-2002, 12:21 PM	#5
mannish Herf God Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Springville, AL USA Posts: 15,792	I hate Taylors but they are excellent guitars. My daughter has a beautiful top-of-the-line big body Taylor but I hate it. My son in law has a Tacoma I like it far better than the daughters Taylor. I'll stick to the Gibsons, although my Martin is great I am still a Gibson man when it comes to acoustics. It has MY tone and like cigars everyones taste is different. No right or wrong. This Martin is about take over as my main acoustic, though. I am so depressed about music it really doesn't matter. Sale all of them and say F-it __________________ “We do not see things as they are, we see them as we are.”

11-20-2002, 12:51 PM	#6
decasere Club Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Souderton, PA USA Posts: 2,934	dang mannish, it cant be that bad, i wish i had half the talent you've got. Cheer up it can only get worse, so why be down now?? St Alphonso, have you considered the Washburn D 10, its the acoustic that i have and wiedly considered one of the best under $500 dollar guitars out there. "If you can't send money send Tobacco" George Washington to the continental Congress 1776 __________________ LETS GO FLYERS!!

11-20-2002, 01:01 PM	#7
St. Alphonzo Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Wilmington, DE Posts: 471	Hey Guys, Thanks for all the wisdom. My bro-in-law, who has a Taylor 714ce, thinks Martin is just skating along on their name rather than making fine instruments anymore. Any thoughts? Mannish, The D-15 is all Mahogany, Top, Back and Sides. One problem is that one guitar is in Wilmington (Tacoma) and the Martin is in Philly (Medley Music) so it's hard for a side by side comparison. The search continues.... __________________ Two degrees in be-bop, a PhD in swing, he's the master of rhythm, he's a rock and roll king...

11-20-2002, 01:25 PM	#8
mannish Herf God Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Springville, AL USA Posts: 15,792	"My bro-in-law, who has a Taylor 714ce, thinks Martin is just skating along on their name rather than making fine instruments anymore. Any thoughts?" Yeah he's very wrong. Martin, Gibson, Fender, Taylor, Guild....etc are way too steeped in tradition and pride to 'skate along'. The competition is more fierce than ever and Martin still makes one of the finest guitars available, will always make one of the finest. Period. Some makers (not just guitars) have a lot of pride in their products and Martin is one of them. They don't 'skate along' they built the ice rink for the other 'skaters'. __________________ “We do not see things as they are, we see them as we are.”

11-20-2002, 02:20 PM	#9
St. Alphonzo Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Wilmington, DE Posts: 471	Well put! __________________ Two degrees in be-bop, a PhD in swing, he's the master of rhythm, he's a rock and roll king...

11-21-2002, 05:44 PM	#10
Mo Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 184	I would recommend looking at the Ibanez AW series. I played this guitar for about an hour or so last weekend while guitar shopping and was pretty impressed. http://www.ibanez.com/guitars/guitar.asp?model=AW300NT Great bass, nice highs, and loud enough to play fingerstyle. I agree with some of the other posts as well... looks and sound are important factors, but a guitar should also inspire you a little. __________________ Troy "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistant one" - Albert Einstein